I had a pre-Christmas coffee with a woman in her fifties who I meet now and again. She was visibly miserable and started to tell me about her very successful daughter (one of three), who lives in New York with her equally talented boyfriend.
The problem: this daughter has turned 34 and shows no signs of cracking on with “having a family”, as she puts it.
“If she doesn’t get on with it, it’ll be just them and their cat in that apartment forever. I can’t think of anything worse …
… Or he’ll dump her and it’ll just be her and the cat!” (hangs head).
This woman was clearly anguished by the situation – the daughter was only home for a few days, so she had limited time to harangue her.
I wasn’t in the mood. Firstly, I told her she was insulting the life I live.
Then, that she was inadvertently diminishing the lives of childfree couples everywhere by equating not having children with not having a family.
Then, that she was discrediting several of my good female friends by implying that being single and childless over 40 is the proverbial fate worse than death.
No matter; she continued to rant tearfully that it was getting too late – this daughter wasn’t even keen on getting married, and she’d been put off pregnancy when the children of two friends were diagnosed with severe ASD.
What could she do to change her mind? How could she persuade them to “try for a family”?
Because then, if the fella ever left (as this woman’s own husband had), at least the daughter would have a life.
It only takes one person weeping about how their child might end up like you to rattle your composure. I felt disconcerted afterwards; deflated. Unfestive.
(“It’ll be terrible for her if they never have a family!”)
And then I thought: Screw that bitch.
Fear illness, fear poverty, fear dangerous presidents, but please don’t fear a life like mine.
If you wanted children (or grandchildren) but won’t be having any, mourn the loss: grieve, throw all the resources you can at it. For some it is a visceral blow that can contain dread and panic for the future. I know that.
But at some point you need to choose how you are going to view your circumstances, and the rest of your life. You can use the adversity as a convenient hook to hang all your feelings of emptiness and dissatisfaction on forever, or you can try to move on.
Getting to that point may be difficult, but I am here to tell you that once you arrive, the views aren’t bad at all. Life will be normal again, and good. I’ll keep on saying this throughout 2017, in the hope that it allays at least one person’s fears or prejudices.
And proud grannies and broody, potential grannies? Choose your audience wisely, please.
Different Shores 
Very true. It can be hard to remember the life to keep living in the middle of the process though! And I am very grateful for my mum’s repeated comments that she wants me to have children because I want them, not to provide grandchildren.
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Wildly applauding you! 🙂 🙂
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Thank you!
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Kudos to you.
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Fully agree.
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Preach
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Gosh, know your audience! Did she forget who she was talking to or what? Anyway you said she has three kids so what’s the problem? I’m sure one of them will give her grandkids at some point. If her daughter is happy then she should be happy for her. Good for you for speaking up but it sounds like she’s stuck in her views.
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Yep – three kids; two that live near her… I know.
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Good for you…but I know it’s tough. After I married (like within the first week after I married) I was asked EVERY DAY…so when are you having kids? Then when we entered the International Adoption Process (which takes YEARS and YEARS), I was asked EVERY DAY…so did you go to China yet?..did you get your baby? I guess people are just trying to be nice…well, I think they’re to be nice, but it is hard. And the other piece to this is that my husband was NEVER asked about kids.
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Your photos are gorgeous! I really, really enjoy them!
I love everything about this post except for the fact that your coffee date chose you to dump on. But your response to her was great. And then you followed with such great advice to grieve, throw all your resources at it, and then choose how you’re going to view the rest of your life.
You are so right: it does get good again. “Getting to that point may be difficult, but I am here to tell you that once you arrive, the views aren’t bad at all.”
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Honestly, this not even a thought for me. I think it is because, as a lesbian who was young during a time that it was almost impossible to get pregnant with any professional help, most of my friends and community did not have children and didn’t plan to. It was too costly, too difficult, too legally complex. (And it mostly still is.) The pool of men who might have willingly fathered children for us were falling ill and dying, so that option was out. People made (and still make) beautiful, rich lives that had nothing to do with having children. If you did have children, it was an oddity, and made your social life far more difficult.
I think of people like this woman as being very similar to people who insist their children go in to the family business, whether those people have a talent or interest in it or not. Possibly they lack the imagination to entertain different lives from their own. Possibly they want confirmation that their choices were the right ones. Or, more kindly, they have been happy with their choices and want that happiness for someone they care for.
But it is hardly the only road to a wonderful life. Not by a long shot.
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I like the idea that these people lack imagination – and also, this woman is every kind of -phobic under the sun, so I suppose it goes with the territory..
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I’m sorry this happened to you! Your response was great however. It can be difficult for parents to accept that their children will never have children of their own so it’s fitting you used the term
“Mourn the loss.” When I decided to be childfree, even I had to mourn the loss of kids I would never have. But after you mourn, you must move on. And I really hope that is what this woman will do!
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Jeez, I can’t believe people sometimes. Few years ago I was tending to my grandfather IN HIS DEATHBED in a hospital and a nosy nurse came in and asked about my private life to make conversation. She wanted to know if I was married or have a boyfriend (at the time I was 25) and when I said I wasn’t picturing a family in my future, she gasped with horror and looked at me with pitiful glances. “Well, good luck with that. You’ll need someone who will look after you, when you will be old!Can’t you see how it works?” All this with my grandfather there slowly dying…how appropriate…*sigh*
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God that’s awful – what the hell is wrong with people? I despair
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Good for you for setting her straight! Not that it sounds like it did much good. I totally echo your sentiment: screw that bitch.
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It surprises me still that there remain women in the world like this! Good for you x
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Fair balls for taking her on. What a self-awareness free zone. What a tragic example of what happens when obsession shrinks the generous proportions of a lucky world down to the size of a plea. Take your manifesto and shove it up her vesto.
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Argh! I guess it just proves the point that people are so focused on themselves, they can’t think about anyone else, even the person in front of them.
I’m glad you spoke up too. Brava! And brava for this too – “Fear illness, fear poverty, fear dangerous presidents, but please don’t fear a life like mine.”
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Amen. And thank you for saying it, even if it seems like she didn’t really hear it. Maybe some of it sunk in for next time.
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This woman sounds insensitive on so many levels. I am in my early 30s and my parents are in their mid 70s, so most of their friends already have grandchildren. I am their only child and to their credit, they have never, ever pressured me about having kids. I forget that there are people who have a much narrower mindset. “Screw that bitch” is right!
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Absolutely loved what you said – You can use the adversity as a convenient hook to hang all your feelings of emptiness and dissatisfaction on forever, or you can try to move on.
We have been child free and looks like this will be our life and it’s a choice. However, my MIL and Mum tell us that they want us to be happy. And our argument? That we already are. So hard to make people understand the simple things.
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Don’t you hate when you just wanted a cup a coffee with someone and then becomes this therapy session/your lifestyle sucks thing? This person needs to realized that her children are grown and they make decisions that are best for them and stop projecting MOM!
oops, it got a bit too personal. I hope your next coffee date goes a bit better.
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From my personal experience, I’ve lived with a mom like that. She lamented her lack of grandchildren, especially after my sister told her she didn’t want children at all. I’m the oldest and there is a brother between my sister and me, but he seems rather reluctant to procreate. I, on the other hand, desperately wanted to conceive but was diagnosed with PCOS and, well a lot of stuff happened, one thing being the demise of my marriage. I still wanted to be a mother so I continued on as foster mother and in December 2015 I adopted my son – a 16 year old young man. My mother, now a grandmother through adoption, still laments her lack of biological grandchildren and won’t be pacified even with the pending adoption of two more children (ages 2 1/2 and 6). Like the woman you had coffee with, she simply cannot be happy with a reality outside of her perceived plot. She even accused me of not trying hard enough and suggested the reason I didn’t get pregnant was because I was with the wrong person. I’m sad that she could not see or seem to understand what you were trying to tell her. She lost out on the wisdom you have in what you wrote here. I’m sure she runs the risk of damaging her relationship with her daughter as well, if she says these same things to her. I hope you’ve been able to recuperate from the meeting and have found more insightful friends to share a coffee.
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I’m so sorry that your mum laments her lack of biological grandchildren and even the thought of two more doesn’t excite her as it should: I imagine that must be quite wounding. I have to say, I have a special kind of irritation for these discontented mothers who have already raised children but are now agonising over not having grandchildren/biological grandchildren: I have no patience with them at all. It really is a shame that your mum can’t find it within her to fully & unconditionally support you and your boy and your prospective children, and conceal any “grief” (schmief!) she may feel inside about it; and also to support you properly when you didn’t conceive. NB Props to you for going it alone and fostering and adopting!
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Good grief, what an ignorant, selfish woman. Well done for showing her an alternative point of view, not that she took it on board. People like that are so closed-minded.
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I may need a chiropractic adjustment from nodding so vigorously throughout this post.
I’m glad that you called her out on her behavior, but I’m disheartened that she still didn’t get it.
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So true. I don’t know if I will be lucky enough to have children, but my life is far from empty and it is so hard to hear people who still believe such a old school way of thinking. I hate having my life chalked up to “Oh, she couldn’t have children” whispered quietly behind raised hands. I would much rather have people say “She has a good career that she loves, and they travel every year and volunteer with a couple different organizations. They’re the best Aunt and Uncle those boys could ask for!”
My mother in law is like this woman – my husband is the oldest and there are no grandchildren yet and despite knowing our difficulties she believes that I am just not trying hard enough and it is heart breaking to hear her criticism. Especially since she, herself, has had 6 miscarriages and 2 stillbirths in her quest for the three sons she has. I expected her to be understanding, but instead she just continues to point out how empty our lives are going to be if we don’t succeed in procreating.
I just want to say I love you blog. I follow because I am afraid I will never be blessed with children, and you have truly helped me to come to terms with a potential option for my life. Sending love!
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I re-read the end of my comment and what I meant to say was: I love your blog. Following you has shown me the beauty and fulfillment in different ways of life, and helped me to see the light should I not be blessed with children. Life does go on and it will be good again, and I appreciate your willingness to share that.
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No worries, I know what you mean, and I’ve been in that horrible place and had The Fear. It all pans out OK in the end, whatever way it goes x
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Thanks so much Rambler. I’m sorry you have to put up with that crap from your mother in law. And if this blog can reach out to just one person in the way you describe, my work is done! x
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What a crap conversation that was. I think you handled it amazingly well, and she just didn’t want to listen to other perspectives. It’s true that people don’t think when they speak on this topic and ought to consider audience. The grandchildren thing… ah. She means well, but I had a real hard time when my mother in law told me that we should spend Christmas with them next year, regardless of our situation, because “Christmas is hard for me, too, not having grandchildren.” OH WOW, I AM SO SORRY FOR YOUR LOSS. Wrong person to complain about THAT to. I loved what you said here, “But at some point you need to choose how you are going to view your circumstances, and the rest of your life. You can use the adversity as a convenient hook to hang all your feelings of emptiness and dissatisfaction on forever, or you can try to move on.” So much wisdom in that. I wish that society didn’t see living childfree as so dire, especially when some choose it for their own reasons and love it, and others didn’t choose it and are coming to grips, and some people didn’t choose it but are at peace and quite happy with what that life entails. I hope to have a child through the adoption process, but if it doesn’t happen I don’t think that I will be mourning forever, living some shell of a life. It will be a great life, and too bad for those who can’t see that. Grrr.
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One of the things I’m wrestling with is the situation that, however OK I feel about living childfree, society doesn’t really listen to me and people still feel sorry for those who hit 45 and don’t have kids. It’s like a dual perspective: I feel like the culture hasn’t caught up with me. Message for your mother-in-law: BITE ME!
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Society definitely hasn’t caught up with us yet! One of my best friends still says she believes I will have kids, two years after we stopped treatments. I have actually asked her NOT to say this to me anymore (that was when she said it for the second time, this was probably number four or five). But in her head, she seems to have the right to do so. Which makes me believe that those struck with motherhood hormones are just unable to think outside of that box… which seems to be the case a lot in society even though the statistics will tell you there are actually many more childless women around than you would think!
I am so sorry you had to endure such a horrible conversation just before Christmas. It would be bad at any time, but December must have made it even worse.
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Ugh that’s annoying of the friend – they see no harm in saying this, they can’t understand why it’s hurtful. I’m glad you told her to stop.
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All you said. Beautifully, wisely and with a hell of a lot more compassion for all involved than this woman would even dream of doing. Screw poverty, screw illness and screw those who are too self-centered to see that life is more than checking boxes. In fact, that life is usually a lot more beautiful.
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You go! So amazing that you spoke up. I still stew over the comments a woman made to me years ago – that if one can’t get pregnant it’s because God doesn’t want her to have a child – while I sat there dumbly and said nothing. Good for you for speaking up. And I’m sorry you had to endure that at all.
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Thanks Beth. Bleurgh the God statement is even worse – what a hideous, rude thing for someone to say to you.
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I’m glad you spoke up, too.
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Yay you!! As I read this, I thought, you know, this woman’s daughter may not WANT children. She may be on the fence. She may be dying to have kids but her boyfriend is not onside. She may have been ttc for years & had half a dozen miscarriages and not told her mother about it. And none of it matters because it’s not her mother’s life. The lady needs to STFU & MYOB.
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You have got to freakin be kidding me. I am a little in shock over the fact that you’ve had several coffee dates with this woman, yet she doesn’t know this isn’t an appropriate conversation to have with you! Mind blowing how insensitive some people can be. It sounds like you responded beautifully, but she is too dimwitted to get it. Ugh.
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Yeah, I wouldn’t hang out with this woman anymore.
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Screw that bitch is right.
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Much applause to you for standing up to her, even if she obviously didn’t hear you. I’m constantly amazed/disheartened by what people think is okay to comment on, and the fact that this was someone you know, and not an obnoxious stranger, makes it even worse. Gorgeous pictures to go with your awesome response, though! 🙂
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Thanks Traci!
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Yes!!! Hurrah!
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